You have to learn how to say no, how to have boundaries, how to take care of yourself. As a recovered alcoholic (decades ago) I can assure you that the addict HAS to put there recovery as the sole purpose of the program. Challies gives an example of Warren using Job 22:21, Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Warren uses this verse in a positive way in his book. Youre demanding silence from me with regard to a false teacher, but then you think its totally appropriate to call me names and make accusations because you dont like what I said. No gospel to be found, but he does invite the reader to accept Christ. My personal rule of thumb is that if the church, book, etc. I hope to add to the small chorus of conservative Christian women in the world. Pastors need to ask themselves, What are the barriers that keep people from jumping in to serve? At Saddleback we discovered the word leader itself was a barrier to some people who didnt consider themselves leaders. And it fails the people who go through the program whether they leave in recovery or not. 3 Ways to Maintain Sanity in Ministry by Dr. Jeff Forrey. Kay Warren, Rick Warrens wife, added insult to injury on Mothers Day and gave the Sunday message. You must be new here. Im not. Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. You are not phased by negativity and your focus is on scripture which I love. The celebrity pastor culture at the church and pastor emphasis on the website distract from Jesus. Saddleback Church in Southern California has cleared Rick Warren successor Andy Wood following an investigation into allegations of an abusive leadership style. Rick Warren is wonderful, and here are some personal experiences. Theres an obvious assumption the reader has no clue who Jesus is or why He is important. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. I thank you for staying strong and focused on biblical teachings and Im actually learning a lot here. Hi, Debbie. If you, however, find theres a lack of content you want to read, then I suggest you start a blog and share what you want to see on the internet. Well, Southern Baptists dont approve of female pastors becausethe Bible. The harder you pound on others who interpret, believe or lead in a way that your hammer mind doesnt agree with, the more you destroy tools made by God for other purposes. 4 Reasons You Need a Break by Lane Sebring Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. ), L.A. Affairs: I had my reasons for not dating white men. Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. We are easily deceived and surrounded by a godless culture. So, I can only conclude that the real reason you want me to keep quiet is because you dont like my opinion. CR gives the impression that Jesus is a step toward the goal of recovery rather than being of the utmost importance. I really do appreciate hearing from people. Do you have faith? Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. (RNS) Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren on Sunday (June 6) announced the church will begin the official search for his successor, signaling he will retire after 40 years in his pulpit.. She must know that God sent His Son, Jesus, to fulfill the law living a sinless life and that Jesus willingly took the punishment for our sin on the cross as the final sacrifice needed. How can you get involved? Did you read the post or just the title? Scriptural qualifications also say pastors must be apt to teach, they must be the husband of one wife, they must be not given to wine its all in the Bible in 1st Timothy Chapter 3. I sincerely hope you see this as a fair question. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. Hi Julie, I agree with much of what you say, though I think you are over thinking it God uses many questionable things but people get saved. ( The Desert Sun Video) The top pastor of Southwest Church in Indian Wells was asked to resign because he refused to condemn homosexuality, he explained in his resignation letter. But I find it likely that Rick Warrens retirement makes it easier for people who have long wanted Saddleback out to pursue it. Rick Warren and celebrity pastors: https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/. Oh yeah, and Jesus. 15 reviews of Saddleback Church "Such a great campus and wonderful community to build relationships with one another. Im actually a little excited about Saddleback ordaining women because this gives the SBC no choice but to address female preaching. God bless you! Ministry is the box, the delivery system, but Jesus is the gift. Thank you for this post. Another missing gospel, a focus on something other than Jesus, and mishandling Scripture make for another gospel failing. The popular preacher. I find that it doesnt matter whether youre in a big church or a small church, a rural church or an urban church, you can burn out no matter what your situation. Im not sure people even know them when they see them. Have people been saved at Saddleback? That person will be a sober recipient of Hell. All that said, women can teach anyone in many circumstances, and I agree the Bible gives multiple examples of God using women for great things. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. Jesus is their life. My prayer is that people turn back to solid Bible teaching in their local churches. He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. CareLeader.org helps you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care. We fail, and the gospel is the good news that Jesus has offered us as the way to be reconciled to God. The way he delivers his lukewarm message doesnt resonate with you and thats fine, you have every right to go to a different church. Its not minor to openly and unrepentantly disobey Gods Word by ordaining female pastors. The American Church is an embarrassment as it strays away from the Lord. God bless you. LOL. Yes, thats right. He is not the cause of your problems and poor choices. After exiting the video, you will be welcomed to the family of God by some other guy. Folks who are not on the right and increasingly the far right of the theological political spectrum do not find a home in SBC. How long have you been saved? I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. Thanks for the comment, but Im not sure what your Bible reference has to do with my post. Be hypervigilant. You make theology your God and replace Grace with your endless list of grievances. Im going to skip over forgiving ourselves and look right to forgiving God. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. That just breaks my heart. Titus 1:6 and 1 Timothy 3:2 tell us elders should have one *wife* (a male exclusive)and Titus 1:9 and 1 Timothy 3:2 tell us pastors should be apt to teach. So, that means that I dont add or take from Gods Word, and I see the Bible as the absolute Word of God which is our Authority. Whats really driving me? When you always say yes, when youre always available, when youre going faster and your pace is beyond what it should be, learn to ask that question. (All the information I share in this section is from the Saddleback Church website, unless otherwise noted.). After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. Thank you so much for doing what you do. He is good (James 1:17), gracious (Psalm 145:17), holy (Isaiah 6:3), immutable (Psalm 33:11), loving (1 John 4:8), merciful (Titus 3:5), and just (Romans 1:32). I am happy to hear you believe your life has been positively changed through Warrens ministry, and I wish you all the best in the future. His battles with the church arent over, How Palm Springs ran out Black and Latino families to build a fantasy for rich, white people, 17 SoCal hiking trails that are blooming with wildflowers (but probably not for long! Are we going to start kicking out churches who have pastors who are intemperate? If a whole post on the subject is wrong, then I wonder how much is acceptable to you. I will be praying for you. Ordaining female pastors contradicts biblical teachings. COVID had its impact on our Saddleback staff because we were not able to all be together in the offices. These critics are blind and need the Holy Spirit to open their eyes. Before this ordaining women fiasco, though, I already had reservations about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. It seems like we will have to agree to disagree. https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. We should not be tossed to and fro by any old doctrine (Ephesians 4:14). But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. I also must mention that your ability to maintain your poise when being attacked was nothing short of impressive and showed true Christian character. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to disfellowship Saddleback was not about Scripture or adherence to the Baptist Faith and Message. Yes, theology is important and doctrine matters. As seen in The Purpose Driven Life, CR uses eisegesis to unite these eight principles with Scripture. It says they have to be temperate. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. You are allowed your opinion, as am I. I am not seeking to tear down another Christian. During normal operations, Saddleback's Lake Forest site is said to have a weekly attendance of often more than 30,000 congregants. Stay strong and keep the faith in Jesus. Instead of focusing on a church and its leader and criticizing why you think it is bad bible teaching, why not change the focus and write a post about the church you attend to attract people? |, Christian Budgeting: There Really Is A Biblical Way, How To Sabotage Your Marriage: Unrealistic Expectations, News And The Willful Ignorance Of Christians - The Set-Apart Walk, Your Church Might Just Be A Social Club - The Set-Apart Walk, Lutheranism Is Biblical, Right? Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. She cannot enter His presence by her own works and will spend eternity in Hell (then, the lake of fire) when she dies. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. Whos right ,and Who is wrong! INTERVIEW WITH PASTOR CYNTHIA PETTY. He is telling them it is the cleanliness of the inner man that matters. They dont need to know about hell; they live there and in addiction they are prevented from thinking of anything but them selves that is what addiction is. No, I havent contacted Pastor Warren or the SBC. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. I assume you see me, and others like me, as judgmental and mean. 3. He is also the author of the book Replenish, which is dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. Face it, no one loves you as much as you do. Adam Greenway, who served as the president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary from February 2019 to September 2022, was one of many who argued that the decision sets a bad precedent: There seems to be a sentiment in todays SBC that wants to purify the Convention, and sees women pastors as a huge threat to biblical authority and a slippery slope toward liberalism and drift, he wrote on Twitter. In Matthew 22:39 Jesus tells those listening to love their neighbors as they love themselves. Sadly, most negative comments I get on this post ultimately make the same points. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. But that doesnt give the ministry a free pass on its areas of weakness or disobedience to the Word (e.g., ordaining women). I think its part of acknowledging our limits; God gives us permission to stop, even though theres still more that could be done. Im not sure if you understand what straining gnats and swallowing camels means. A few years ago it was Calvinism. The Resolution on Ordination and the Role of Women in Ministry, passed by the SBC, draws on Paul's conduct in the ancient Roman church in its disapproval of women holding in pastoral positions.. I know Im just a regular person and havent started my own female-ordaining mega-church, but maybe having access to Gods Word should have been a bit sooner? I understand its Saddlebacks website, and I would expect it to encourage people to join them. Otherwise, what is it that we believe? There is no such thing as a coincidence in Southern Baptist confession of faith. On the other hand, continued CR attendance is imperative. On hearing of Saddleback's decision to allow women to become pastors, some Southern Baptist ministers had conflicting opinions. Rather, filter your worldview and beliefs through the truth of His Word. Julie Ignorant comments are nothing compared to that. I agree that God can do anything through anything. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. If so, what was the outcome? To his own master he stands or falls. Romans 14 is about not having disunity over disputable matters. However, in its proper context we discover this is bad advice given by one of Jobs friends. And for some, like my mother, it proves to be stronger than they are. Most Christians couldnt even accept that fact because their church isnt talking about Revelation nor are they looking at the world with a Biblical world view. Obviously there have been generations where persecution has been hotter and more intense, but there are more complexities for a pastor today. However, they had a much easier time than previously in dealing with their addiction. If not, why not? So, when a Christian recovery program misuses and abuses Scripture, I see a secular program with a veneer of Christianity. So the Southern Baptist Convention gave it the boot, Q&A: Talking about the Southern Baptist sex abuse scandal with Pastor P.J. That pastors books can be bestsellers. This is not the first time Kay Warren has taken the pulpit, however. You should have watched and listen to the Saddleback sermon this Sunday. By the same logic, you should probably refrain from commenting on someones blog post It doesnt make sense, you know? I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. It is your opinion that you find the message to not be clear. He was buried and resurrected 3 days later, defeating death and offering us the free gift of salvation. God bless! Pastors need to have life outside of ministry. It sounds like Warren based his church on fundamental biblical principles, so what can I say? Hi, Elizabeth. Here is the Associated Press:. Without all that information, it certainly is not the Jesus of the Bible. Christian unity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/ The Saddleback Church pastor developed the popular Christ-centered 12-step program for "hurts, habits, and hang-ups." Jump directly to the Content Who We Are (Though, I admit to using sarcasm. Third, experiences dont trump the Bible. First, pastors have to connect the what to the why. Thanks for leaving your thoughts. Pastor Rick Warren, who founded . If you read some of my other posts you would know that I have a mom who died as a result of her alcoholism. There is so many different Churches(Buildings ,with preaching going on).What about Catholic Nuns? Have it to yourself before God. At the time, we had five or six hundred small groups. Saddleback Church, founded by Pastor Rick Warren and his wife, Kay, in 1980, announced on Facebook that on May 6 it had ordained three women as ministers in a "historic night." On Mother's Day, which fell three days after Saddleback's ordination, the Sunday morning online message was given by Kay Warren. Im pondering your post, not pounding it. So many people out here in South Bay has been praying for years for a Saddleback campus, and through God's will, daring faith vision, and persistency, the prayers have now been answered. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. Stop sieving the Bible through your worldview and presuppositions. Be discerning. Very insightful thank you for your faithful service. It would be wonderful if leaders in the SBC and/or members of his church would pull him aside, but they either havent or it hasnt worked. He is a public figure who many people look to for spiritual guidance. First, congratulations on your recovery. Among those who worry about an increasingly authoritarian stance by the SBC is Benjamin Cole, 46, a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. Here we are again. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. Because after the Orange County megachurch ordained three women as associate pastors, it named Stacie Wood, wife of the churchs senior pastor, Andy Wood, a teaching pastor. Know what I mean? (I dont promote my own church because I encourage local church membership.) Its driven by power, male supremacy; and it stinks in the nostrils of God, he wrote. This is why Warren's church would have fallen apart; because the church is devoid of Christ. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. A generation ago, a pastor was the only voice in his community. Put some of your training online, or give volunteers a handout. Its a real shame, and plenty of Southern Baptists are displeased by this sort of thing. Essentially, the gospel isnt present. For Rick to do what he did in Southern California required some different strategies and different ways of communicating, and that was unsettling to traditional hard-line Southern Baptists. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. Celebrate Recovery uses this verse to support the principle that to recover, I need to examine and confess my faults to myself, to God, and to someone I trust. This is a completely unrelated interpretation of that verse. Instead, the couple shepherded the large church through the COVID-19 pandemic and a shutdown than would affect the church for about 14 months. Church membership is suggested but not insisted upon. Then, one day my wife said, Theres always a reason or a season why you cant be who youre supposed to be. I had to get to the place where I really owned my spiritual health. The end. Does the rubber meet the road? And any church that ordains women is in sin. 4. My wife and kids felt the impact of my out-of-control pace. So, he looks at the Bible through the lens of his own ideas and uses Scripture out of its proper context and meaning to support those ideas. It played out the most during those years at Saddlebacknot with my fellow staff members but at home. I one of those theologically challenged slobs who actually was saved at a CR. People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. I have read all of his devotionals (365 of them as I translated them into another language) and they were sincere and enriching for me personally. Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings ("You weren't just meant to believe; You were made to belong."), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. I understand.) No church is perfect.
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